Tag Archives: Fun Rhythms

Fun Rhythms: Half-time/Double-time – Dancing a Jive and a Slow Foxtrot to the same song

In the first post in this series, I talked about the 12/8 meter. And how, at certain tempos, that allows dancers to legitimately hear a very slow Foxtrot rhythm while someone else (or the same person tuning their ear a little bit differently) can hear and dance to a fast Viennese Waltz. This is one of my favorites, but it is pretty rare.

This time I’d like to touch on the much more common cases of half- and double-time rhythms. Musically, this can be when one person is counting quarter notes, and someone else is counting eighth notes; the second is double-time (or double the tempo) of the first. Or one person hears quarter notes, and the other hears half notes, that being half-time (or half the tempo) of the first.

Bam Bam:

One example of this is Bam Bam by Camila Cabello – One can dance a fast Salsa to that song at 190 beats per minute, or a slow Cha Cha at 95 beats per minute. If you take a look at the sheet music, the official meter is 4/4 with a tempo of a quarter note = 96 beats per minute. But you can also see that most of the melody line is sixteenth notes, and the bass line is dominated by eighth notes, so you can see a potential double-time rhythm.

But more importantly, if you listen to the recording (Spotify or Apple Music), there is a snare drum that’s consistently hitting eighth notes (exposing a 190 bpm tempo), and the actual bass guitar is predominantly playing quarter notes (exposing a 95 bpm tempo).

You Can’t Hurry Love:

In Phil Collins’s You Can’t Hurry Love, the sheet music is listed at 96 bpm. But the bass guitar is playing fairly strong and consistent eighth notes, so the majority of the music4dance community has heard this at double the listed tempo (196 bpm) and voted to dance Quickstep, Single Swing, or Jive to it.

But there is a very strong tambourine on beats two and four that brings out the quarter-note tempo and allows one to hear the 98 bpm natural tempo and dance a Slow Dance or Slow Foxtrot to the same song.

An aside – small discrepancies in tempos:

If you were following along closely, you’ll notice that the listed sheet music tempos are slightly different than the “listening” tempos that are on Music4Dance, even allowing for double-time/half-time considerations. e.g., Bam Bam is listed at 96 bpm in the sheet music, but I (and the algorithm) are actually hearing 95 bpm (or 180 bpm). I’m assuming this is because musicians don’t always follow the exact tempo on the sheet music. Or that whoever transposed to the piano sheet music I’m looking at was listening to a slightly different recording. But it may be because I’m counting slightly off. In any case, it wouldn’t materially change what one would dance to it, so I’m going to leave this little nitpick at that.

And the list goes on:

When You’re Smiling by Michael Buble – A very Slow Foxtrot at 76 BPM or a Quickstep at 151 BPM.

Old Black Magic (the Oscar Peterson version) – A Slow Foxtrot at 104 BPM or a fast Quickstep at 209 BPM.

Why should you care?

As a DJ, these songs are great because dancers who may be comfortable with different dances can dance to the same song, and you’ve got a better chance of filling the dance floor. As a dancer, I’ve always found it fun to dance a fast swing in the middle of the floor while most of the room is dancing a Slow Foxtrot around the perimeter – but that may just be because I’m more comfortable with Swing than Foxtrot.

In addition, spending some time listening to these kinds of nuances is one way (certainly not the only way) to improve your musicality as a dancer.

Finally, I like picking at the edges of these kinds of things, and it is helping me focus a bit on cleaning up the catalog, since there is a strong overlap between these fun rhythms and the places where the algorithmic tempos don’t line up with the dance. So if that is the only real reason for this series, please bear with me, and feel free to skip them – hopefully the end result is a more accurate set of tempo/dance alignments than we had before.

Step of the Month

The “Step of the Month” for August:  This is a small variation on the July Step. Please share an unusual rhythm song (or songs) that you enjoy dancing to. I’m specifically looking for interesting variations that I haven’t mentioned yet in this series. I’ve got one more up my sleeve, but I’d like to continue on this path for more than three posts. But I need some help to do that. Post it in the comment thread here or send feedback.

Fun Rhythms: 12/8 meter- Slow Foxtrot + Viennese Waltz?

Since I’ve added the ability to set the tempo of a dance for a song independently of the tempo of the song itself, I’ve found some renewed energy to go through and clean up some of the inconsistencies that have crept into the music4dance catalog. As I promised (or threatened) when I blogged about the…

Fun Rhythms: 12/8 meter- Slow Foxtrot + Viennese Waltz?

Since I’ve added the ability to set the tempo of a dance for a song independently of the tempo of the song itself, I’ve found some renewed energy to go through and clean up some of the inconsistencies that have crept into the music4dance catalog. As I promised (or threatened) when I blogged about the update, I am going to share some of the fun rhythms I find in this process.

12/8 Meter

The first “fun rhythm” I’d like to talk about is the different rhythms a dancer may hear in music written in 12/8. This is effectively 4/4 time where each beat of 4/4 is a triplet, although technically it’s twelve eighth notes per measure (4 *3 = 12).

12/8 musical notation example
My quick demo of what 12/8 looks like on the page.

This post on Jade Bultitude’s site does a much better job of explaining and illustrating the musical part of this than I do.

Dancing to 12/8

The fun thing about this meter is that as a dancer you can count it in two ways – either as a 3/4 measure for each of the triplets or as 4/4 where you hear each triplet as a beat.  Then the triplet rhythm will sometimes work for a Viennese Waltz, and the 4/4 rhythm will work for a slow dance like a Slow Foxtrot, Nightclub Two Step, or Blues. Also note that if you’re looking at the sheet music for a song, you’ll generally see a dotted quarter-note as the measure of tempo, which means a musician is counting the tempo at four beats to a measure, effectively the same as 4/4,

Examples

Like I’m Gonna Lose You” by Megan Trainor featuring John Legend is listed as West Coast Swing, Castle Foxtrot (e.g. Slow Dance), and Blues at 72 BPM, and Viennese Waltz and Tango Vals at 216 BPM on music4dance. The sheet music shows the tempo as 72 BPM, so I’ve set the main song tempo to that.

The sheet music for “Me and Mrs. Jones” by Michael Buble shows that it is technically in 6/8, but the same principle applies. The music4dance page shows votes for Viennese Waltz at 198.2 BPM and Castle Foxtrot (e.g. Slow Dance) and Slow Foxtrot at 66 BPM (this would be very slow for Slow Foxtrot).

Cataloging

I am still playing with how to tag these kinds of songs. Should I add a 12/8 tempo tag to the songs (*even if they might be technically 6/8 or 4/4 with strong triplets)? Should I put a 3/4 tag on the Waltzes and 4/4 on the Foxtrots, or is that redundant? Would it make sense to put a Compound Time tempo tag on all of these?

Next Steps

I’m going to continue to muddle through manually cleaning up these songs, but it will take some time, since there are a lot of these (and I haven’t even gotten into some of the other fun variations).

If you’re interested in seeing more examples and/or jumping in and cleaning them up, here are a few interesting music4dance searches:

If you are interested in helping, but find the documentation (or the discussion above) too confusing, or if you have thoughts on how to better tag these kinds of songs, please feel free to reach out with questions or comments.

Step of the Month

The “Step of the Month” for July:  Please share an unusual rhythm song (or songs) that you enjoy dancing to. It doesn’t have to be a variation on 12/8 or in any way related to the discussion above, just something that’s a little different that you enjoy. Post it in the comment thread here or send feedback.

Update – July 15th, 2026

An astute reader pointed out that I was conflating the terms meter and rhythm. I believe I’ve cleaned this up in the post; the general idea is that dancers hear and dance to a rhythm, while the time signature or meter is a technical term that is used in written music. I am still going to keep the title of this series as “Fun Rhythms”, since I am using this as a forum to talk about the way some dancers may hear the rhythms in a piece of music differently than others.

What Happens When a Song is Danced at Different Tempos?

Sometimes, a song can be a perfectly good Bolero when heard one way but a Salsa when counting the music differently. Another example is Slow Dance (Castle Foxtrot) vs. Lindy Hop. Generally, this phenomenon is because, with some music, it’s easy to count what the musicians see as either a half note or a quarter…

Playing with Dance Tempos

I just rewrote the Tempo tool for the music4dance site as part of the current effort to update the site.  In the process I went back and revisited the reasons for writing the tool in the first place.  The main reason for this tool is to have a single place to do a bit of…

Song Details

The music4dance song details page contains all of the information that we have gathered about a song, including tags and dances that you may have added. Below is a snapshot of a song details page for “How Sweet it Is” as seen by a user, “Charles”, while he is viewing it. Some of the features…