Tag Archives: Tango Vals

Music and Dance

Fun Rhythms: 12/8 meter- Slow Foxtrot + Viennese Waltz?

Since I’ve added the ability to set the tempo of a dance for a song independently of the tempo of the song itself, I’ve found some renewed energy to go through and clean up some of the inconsistencies that have crept into the music4dance catalog. As I promised (or threatened) when I blogged about the update, I am going to share some of the fun rhythms I find in this process.

12/8 Meter

The first “fun rhythm” I’d like to talk about is the different rhythms a dancer may hear in music written in 12/8. This is effectively 4/4 time where each beat of 4/4 is a triplet, although technically it’s twelve eighth notes per measure (4 *3 = 12).

12/8 musical notation example
My quick demo of what 12/8 looks like on the page.

This post on Jade Bultitude’s site does a much better job of explaining and illustrating the musical part of this than I do.

Dancing to 12/8

The fun thing about this meter is that as a dancer you can count it in two ways – either as a 3/4 measure for each of the triplets or as 4/4 where you hear each triplet as a beat.  Then the triplet rhythm will sometimes work for a Viennese Waltz, and the 4/4 rhythm will work for a slow dance like a Slow Foxtrot, Nightclub Two Step, or Blues. Also note that if you’re looking at the sheet music for a song, you’ll generally see a dotted quarter-note as the measure of tempo, which means a musician is counting the tempo at four beats to a measure, effectively the same as 4/4,

Examples

“Like I’m Gonna Lose You” by Megan Trainor featuring John Legend is listed as West Coast Swing, Castle Foxtrot (e.g. Slow Dance), and Blues at 72 BPM, and Viennese Waltz and Tango Vals at 216 BPM on music4dance. The sheet music shows the tempo as 72 BPM, so I’ve set the main song tempo to that.

The sheet music for “Me and Mrs. Jones” by Michael Buble shows that it is technically in 6/8, but the same principle applies. The music4dance page shows votes for Viennese Waltz at 198.2 BPM and Castle Foxtrot (e.g. Slow Dance) and Slow Foxtrot at 66 BPM (this would be very slow for Slow Foxtrot).

Cataloging

I am still playing with how to tag these kinds of songs. Should I add a 12/8 tempo tag to the songs (*even if they might be technically 6/8 or 4/4 with strong triplets)? Should I put a 3/4 tag on the Waltzes and 4/4 on the Foxtrots, or is that redundant? Would it make sense to put a Compound Time tempo tag on all of these?

Next Steps

I’m going to continue to muddle through manually cleaning up these songs, but it will take some time, since there are a lot of these (and I haven’t even gotten into some of the other fun variations).

If you’re interested in seeing more examples and/or jumping in and cleaning them up, here are a few interesting music4dance searches:

If you are interested in helping, but find the documentation (or the discussion above) too confusing, or if you have thoughts on how to better tag these kinds of songs, please feel free to reach out with questions or comments.

Step of the Month

The “Step of the Month” for July:  Please share an unusual rhythm song (or songs) that you enjoy dancing to. It doesn’t have to be a variation on 12/8 or in any way related to the discussion above, just something that’s a little different that you enjoy. Post it in the comment thread here or send feedback.

Update – July 15th, 2026

An astute reader pointed out that I was conflating the terms meter and rhythm. I believe I’ve cleaned this up in the post; the general idea is that dancers hear and dance to a rhythm, while the time signature or meter is a technical term that is used in written music. I am still going to keep the title of this series as “Fun Rhythms”, since I am using this as a forum to talk about the way some dancers may hear the rhythms in a piece of music differently than others.

What Happens When a Song is Danced at Different Tempos?

Sometimes, a song can be a perfectly good Bolero when heard one way but a Salsa when counting the music differently. Another example is Slow Dance (Castle Foxtrot) vs. Lindy Hop. Generally, this phenomenon is because, with some music, it’s easy to count what the musicians see as either a half note or a quarter…

msc4dnc's avatar by msc4dnc

Playing with Dance Tempos

I just rewrote the Tempo tool for the music4dance site as part of the current effort to update the site.  In the process I went back and revisited the reasons for writing the tool in the first place.  The main reason for this tool is to have a single place to do a bit of…

msc4dnc's avatar by msc4dnc

Song Details

The music4dance song details page contains all of the information that we have gathered about a song, including tags and dances that you may have added. Below is a snapshot of a song details page for “How Sweet it Is” as seen by a user, “Charles”, while he is viewing it. Some of the features…

msc4dnc's avatar by msc4dnc
Reviews

Book Review: The meaning of TANGO

The Meaning of TANGO: The Story of the Argentinian Dance by Christine Dennison

This is a fun book for Tango dancers of all types.  The book is very centered around traditional Argentine Tango and does an excellent job of conveying that perspective.  It’s also somewhat unusual in that it is predominantly about the history and philosophy of the dance but contains a section that is straight up technique with diagrams.

The book is a quick read and full of wonderful tidbits about the dance and its history.  Rather than a full-fledged review, I would like to highlight a few points that I feel gave me some useful insight into Argentine Tango.   I am someone with a ballroom background and  I believe this book helped me understand the dance in a way that I didn’t have even after taking a number of beginning Argentine Tango lessons.

Dance to the Melody

There is a section called “One Name, Many Dances” where the author talks about the relationship between Argentine Tango and ballroom dances.  In particular this quote from Freddie Camp, an early German Ballroom dancer:

In Argentina dancers prided themselves on their ability to dance the melody rather than the rhythm. Indeed, Tango orchestras almost never have a drum section. While most other dance music around the world is based on a strong, clear rhythm, generally emphasised by drums, newcomers to Tango music often complain that they find the rhythm of the music difficult to hear. This is one of the qualities that makes Argentinian Tango unique.

The idea of dancing to the melody rather than the rhythm goes a long way to explaining the thing that puzzled me about the practice music that was used in the beginning Argentine Tango lessons that I’ve taken.  I felt that the teachers were choosing music where the beat was hard to find, which I would not expect of a beginning class.  So I’m going to spend some time listening to the melody of Argentine Tango music and see if I can find myself moving to the melody.

Learning to Lead by Following

I found the description of how Argentine Tango was taught traditionally particularly enlightening.  The men would learn in prácticas which were all male and composed predominantly of expert dancers.  When learning to follow a young man would spend his formative years being led by experienced dancers.  Then he would spend additional years within the práctica leading other men before he ever went to a mix sexed milonga and lead a woman.   The fallout of this is that in the context of learning the dance, one was surrounded by experts.  Contrast this with the current practice of dance classes where there are one or two teachers and a crowd of inexperienced dancers.

In addition, from a lead’s perspective, learning to follow is invaluable.  I didn’t do this until I had years of lead experience and when I finally did spend some time learning to follow it fundamentally changed the way I lead.

The Tango Trinity

Finally, the author talks about the “Tango Trinity”: Tango, Milonga, and Vals.  From some other research and some discussion with Argentine Tango dancers, this appears to be the purist’s set of Tango dances.  I had originally categorized Neo Tango into the set of Argentine Tango dances, but that appears not to be the case.  Based on this, I almost went down the path of pulling Neo Tango from the catalog as a distinct dance and reworked it so that Neo Tango (or Tango Nuevo) would just be a style tag on top of the Tango Trinity dances.  But I’m glad I did some further research.  It looks like Neo Tango is a distinct style of dance and related to traditional Argentine tango about as closely as Ballroom Tango is.

The main thing that I got from that set of discussions is that Argentine Tango dancers are even more concerned with the tradition of the music that other styles that I’ve studied.  I got the impression that some would only consider “true tango music” to be that recorded by a specific set of artists from the golden age.  Someday, I’d like to see if I can get things sorted out so that it’s easy to distinguish these from others.

If you have thoughts on the Argentine Tango, the music4dance website or corrections to anything I’ve said about Tango and Tango music, please feel free to comment here or send me feedback.

Also, if this post sparked your interest enough to buy the book, please follow one of the affiliate links below.  And as a small aside, any of the Amazon and ITunes links on the site and blog help support the site, so if you find things of interest here, please use the links to make purchases.

The Meaning of Tango: Kindle Edition

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The Meaning of Tango: Paperback Edition